Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

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Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Gaz on Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:51 pm

long story short,.

this is a 5 cylinder 3b 20 Valve Turbo from an audi S2/S4 quattro.

But.. its not in an S4/S2, its in an old quattro like mine. affraid

any one have any experience with wireing & looms? And square pegs in round holes? Neutral lol

I know its not a FORD but i'm sure anyone who has ever put any engine in another car that wasn't suppose to be in should have an 'idea' of enginering solutions to various problems.

any clever people on here with experience of engine swaps? Your advice and passed Experience on your own projects is welcomed. cheers. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by mg_evolution on Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:28 am

You will want everything in the engine bay, of the car that engine came from. Everything including all the ecus that may be in the car, all the cables. and probably a angle grinder to cut away the front of the car, and a welder to put it all back together again. . then start worring about how it all fits

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by scorted on Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:11 am

hard work and the finer details are time consuming, don't waste money on your quattro

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Gaz on Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:19 pm

scorted wrote:hard work and the finer details are time consuming, don't waste money on your quattro

sounds as if the engine mounts are the same as mine. The fiddle part will be the loom/ECU & plumbing etc... apparently. The guy has even offered to give me a hand fitting it. Very Happy

Engine comes complete. loom, ECU, intercooler, oil cooler, turbo, hoses, etc etc. What i've been told i'll need tho is an audi 200 20V flywheel (or something similar) and clutch. Other than that it's a strait fit to my 5 speed box.

I did question if my car will handle the step up in power, but i've been told, (and i quote) "my transmission will laugh at it!" Shocked But the brakes wont like it. affraid

Heres some pic's of the actual engine i'm interested in:







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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Davespages on Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:05 am

Good morning sir, i'd like to hang up this 2000 plasma tv using plastercine.

Ok sir, how are you going to fix the plastercine to the wall?

With a hammer, a screwdriver and a 13mm spanner.


lol!

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by foreverford on Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:19 am

Davespages wrote:Good morning sir, i'd like to hang up this 2000 plasma tv using plastercine.

Ok sir, how are you going to fix the plastercine to the wall?

With a hammer, a screwdriver and a 13mm spanner.


lol!

Quality, hahahahahahahahaha,

Dave, Do You Recon this engine would sit in My Fez! It would Knock My Socks Off

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by mg_evolution on Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:15 pm

i think dave is right, the shell is too old, and possible alot weaker than it was from the factory. remember the car is going to have stress all over the chassis from being driven for 15 odd years. doubing the power is not going to help, and may show up more stress's.

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by foreverford on Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:11 pm

What car was this engine gonna be fit in,

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by foreverford on Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:17 pm

mg_evolution wrote:i think dave is right, the shell is too old, and possible alot weaker than it was from the factory. remember the car is going to have stress all over the chassis from being driven for 15 odd years. doubing the power is not going to help, and may show up more stress's.

Id Agree with this, After putting My 1400 into my 1100, Im noticing some problems, I never changed suspension or breaks or anything like that, Now My breaks are becoming worn, Im geting that squeaky sound when I break, Gonna have to upgrade them, As Dave said, I need Vented Breaks, Judging by what he said, The 1000cc bonus diddnt have vented breaks, Dont know If My 1100cc has them, Gonna have to make this a prioty to check.

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by scorted on Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:55 am

i'd replace every bit of the suspension as a minimum with new standard parts, and uprate the brakes to match the car that the engine came out of... thats as a bare minimum... can you afford the extra insurance also? all things that need to be considered... and the higher running costs?

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Dan on Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:03 am

just bung it in and see if it works

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Davespages on Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:12 pm

Gaz, just go for the C-Pack big valve head.

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Gaz on Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:12 am

foreverford wrote:
mg_evolution wrote:i think dave is right, the shell is too old, and possible alot weaker than it was from the factory. remember the car is going to have stress all over the chassis from being driven for 15 odd years. doubing the power is not going to help, and may show up more stress's.

Id Agree with this, After putting My 1400 into my 1100, Im noticing some problems, I never changed suspension or breaks or anything like that, Now My breaks are becoming worn, Im geting that squeaky sound when I break, Gonna have to upgrade them, As Dave said, I need Vented Breaks, Judging by what he said, The 1000cc bonus diddnt have vented breaks, Dont know If My 1100cc has them, Gonna have to make this a prioty to check.

Humm... a few mixed responses.

standard power of the 3b is about 230bhp i think. A remap will see 270bhp, and a slightly bigger turbo will take it up to 350bhp or so.

The guy wants 900 quid for the engine, with everything., even a front subframe from an s2.

as for the added stress on the shell, remember the ur quattro ALSO got a 20 valve turbo nearing the end of its production life (called the RR engine). & that had about 220 bhp. so if anything, my car has had an easy life with just 136 bhp to play with for the last 20 years. (at least thats my 'somewhat rose tinted' way of looking at it, anyway. lol Wink )

-

The front shocks on my car were replaced in 2005, as too was the prop shaft (i think the propshaft's worth more than the car affraid lol ) the rear calipers were replced in 2005 aswell.

And i have the rest of my superflex polly bushes waiting to go on the car, will have to get that sorted now the days are getting lighter.

my brakes (as standard) are vented 260 mm at the front & solid at the rear (can't remember what size tho) , i could prob get some front brakes off a 20valve NA engined series 3 quite cheaply. i think they are about 280mm.

Theres a guy with an audi 80 quattro of the same era as mine & hes running 530bhp from one of these engines. Twisted Evil And there are quite a few shocked porsche owners about now, too! lol!

heres the 530bhp monster:


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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Dan on Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:47 am

the shell could take it, i wouldnt worry about that, just your diffs i'd worry about

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by mg_evolution on Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:31 am

with the rust on your shell you had at the RR, i would check the whole of the chassis, inside and out before goin this route. that was my worry on the shell.

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Davespages on Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:03 pm

Lets go back to 1981 and nick this quattro...






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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Davespages on Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:14 pm

Here you go gaz...


"Fire up the quattro"



Last edited by Davespages on Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Davespages on Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:20 pm

Also... they are not the original plates for the quattro and theres a few key things wrong... that particular quattro is an A reg, APH 55Y

The program is set in 1981, but RHD quattro's weren't available until October '82
And being pedantic... The car has the single lense Cibie units, which were added in late 82.

The plate JLY 751V was originally registered to a 1979 Datsun Sunny 1.2

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Gaz on Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:54 pm

scorted wrote:i'd replace every bit of the suspension as a minimum with new standard parts, and uprate the brakes to match the car that the engine came out of... thats as a bare minimum... can you afford the extra insurance also? all things that need to be considered... and the higher running costs?

Diffs: That red 530bhp 80quattro is using the original running gear, with no problems.

running costs: almost Same displacement as mine (2.3L).. and what with it having an ECU/efi rather than 'K-JET', & being 'Newer/more efficient' & also a lower compresion engine than mine (mine is 10.1) , i'd of 'thought' so long as its not 'on boost' it might actually be better on juice than mine. or at least no worse. affraid but then..., whats the point of having it if i don't make use of the loud pedal? lol Twisted Evil

Rust: there is a patch under the rear silencer. and that scab on the rear corner edge at the back. a couple of little bubbles under the paint on the arches and one of the doors. Other than that, underneath is pretty rust free. Less than jets escort, and his cars 10 years younger than mine. And i'll sort the flakey paint on the boot, i'l just swap it with the other audi.

tbh, i've seen WAY more rust on 8 yearold jap-cr@p.. Shocked

insurance : may be the swinging vote.

my current insurer 'Quin' wouldn't give me a quote over the phone, said they needed to send me something for the 'machanic' to fill in after the convesion bfoure they could cover me.. Suspect

so prob won't be THEM i'll be insuring with. So i gave flux a call but i was left on hold cause they were 'busy'.. lol

i'll give em a ring tomorow and see what they say. If its something stuuuupid... i'll have to forget it. Sad
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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by scorted on Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:25 pm

i'm not saying don't do it... it would be cool, I'm playing devils advocate

look at the full cost of everything... and forget anyparts that are new, uprate the suspension and brakes to the highest level possible...

then discover you could have a faster newer car with cheaper insurance and less massive bills for maintenance etc if you can afford all that and get / pay the insurance do it...
James

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Gaz on Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:11 pm

scorted wrote:i'm not saying don't do it... it would be cool, I'm playing devils advocate

look at the full cost of everything... and forget anyparts that are new, uprate the suspension and brakes to the highest level possible...

then discover you could have a faster newer car with cheaper insurance and less massive bills for maintenance etc if you can afford all that and get / pay the insurance do it...
James

seems like a balenced argument to me.

i do have another option.


There's a Gti engenering 2.5 5 Cylinder lump for sale. 470

its been rebuilt, and has even been round the Nurburgring too.

heres the car its come out of:

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by scorted on Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:33 am

having been round the ring isn't exactly a good arguement... i suggest you forget the engine for now, uprate everything else, as this will make you car more fun and faster out on the road then you can go for engine wor or a conversion Smile

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Davespages on Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:49 pm

To be honest, there isn;t that much rust on gaz's car..

Jets is very very rusty, aint been undersealed and has lots of blemishes... more rust than most 10 year old escorts.

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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Gaz on Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:38 pm

Davespages wrote:To be honest, there isn;t that much rust on gaz's car..

Jets is very very rusty, aint been undersealed and has lots of blemishes... more rust than most 10 year old escorts.

its a pain my car wasn't galvanised like the series 3 and later cars were tho. Rolling Eyes but like u say dave, its not that rusty for 20years young.


anyway,.. I'm forgetting about the 3b engine for the moment on grounds of stupid insurance costs. affraid I guess my 350 bhp dream will have to wait for a bit! Sad

it will happen. one day. just need to get my insurance costs down first. Shocked

ahwell.
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Re: Humm.. 3b or not 3b ???

Post by Gaz on Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:10 pm

Davespages wrote:Gaz, just go for the C-Pack big valve head.

Surprised
well.. i'm going for the 2.5L GTi engineering lump.

it has a big valve gas flowed head. develops 170bhp & 180 lb/ft. & i have a feeling i've read somewhere that when fitted with a high lift cam i should see 190 bhp ish.

all i need now is to get it home. any ideas dave? don't think it will fit in my boot very well, what weith it having a petrol tank in there!. Crying or Very sad

what you think? fancy a road trip?
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